If homosexualists were only concerned about their “families” they would go for civil unions.Instead they wasn’t to force the rest of us to accept their weird sexual behaviour is normal. But it isn’t and it never will be
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None • Jackson, Mississippi • 5 days ago Report Abuse
No one is forcing you to accept anything. You don’t have to have anything to do with any gay couple’s marriage, it has nothing to do with you. And you’re the one making marriage about sex, not them. Do marriage licenses dictate how straight couples conduct their sex lives? No!
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 5 days ago
@none and a bunch of others. You ARE forcing it on us because the legal change being petitioned will force organizations and society at large to recognize same sex couples as “married” even if the don’t believe if. You are trying to associate an unholy lifestyle with a sacred thing – marriage.
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Dr. Clayton Forrester • 5 days ago Report Abuse
You don’t have to accept anything. You don’t have to accept that blacks are the equals of whites, nor that women should be allowed to vote, nor that gays should be allowed to marry. Unfortunately, you live in a country that grants equal rights to it’s citizens, so you will have to deal with all these things. Have you considered moving to a country with a Christian Theocracy? Sound more your speed.
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APaulO • Tokyo, Japan • 5 days ago Report Abuse
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. No one is telling you not to marry the person you love.
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 5 days ago
@Mr. B Natural I’m not sure what you hold value in friend but I believe the only reason you can’t see that is forcing is because it not something you disagree with. Either that or you are just indifferent to everything. If you hold no moral absolute in anything that’s on you. As to the Christian theocracy??? What is that a trick question-lol ?? Aint no place like the USA , son!! I get to live and worship freely and see peoples live changed in Jesus. Then go vote my values and see traction. God BLESSES the USA because of his people who serve him. Uh ohh. I think you’re gonna call me a quack now!! Don’t matter, Jesus is worthy.
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Dr. Clayton Forrester • 5 days ago Report Abuse
A quack? Not at all, Mo. You are free in this country to worship as you see fit. I say, “Rock on, brother.”
Not really sure how to address the rest of your post, as it didn’t really counter what I said. Again, you don’t have to accept homosexuals, or blacks, or women as equals, but you will have to deal with the fact that we live in a country that treats it’s citizens equally. I can tell you this much, the United States has never granted equal rights to a minority only to later say, “You know, we really shouldn’t have done that.” 🙂
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 5 days ago
I hear you on that and I treat everyone as should all those who serve the King with respect. Dismissing people and putting them down is not Godly behavior. Jesus does not approve. He also however does not approve of among other things…
Murder Stealing, lying, selfishness, fornication, homosexuality, adultery…so I’m not going to sanction with my voice or my vote any of those things. Do I with my vote deny the murder the right to murder… yes I do. Am I forcing my view about the sanctity of life on him… yes I am
Why because I hold to Gods view of righteousness.The only difference between you and i is that you don’t hold (apparently) God’s righteous view about homosexuality/gay marriage as I do. That’s fine. You vote your way. I’ll vote mine. but be clear… were both trying to establish with our vote conflicting positions. Therein lies the forcing. I hope you followed that
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Dr. Clayton Forrester • 5 days ago Report Abuse
Well, we live in a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy, so ultimately, it won’t be an issue which is settled by popular vote. So you and I have no reason for animosity! Love that! 🙂
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Noneya Dayam • Johnson City, Tennessee • 5 days ago Report Abuse
Listen to what Mo has to say. He don’t like gays and so they do not deserve to be treated the same as his groups. They get special rights because they love Jebus. We get nothing because we don’t believe the same way. in Mo’s America we have laws against eating pork, and working on the Sabbath, and they way we have laws against any religion that does not match Mo’s criteria. Like the Constitution says. Jesus is king of America and all those rights that people fought for and die for, all they needed to do was pray. Mo #$%$ you. That is not what America is about.
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Harry • Austin, Texas • 5 days ago Report Abuse
Your analogies are a bit off Mo. Why do we deny a murderer his “right” to murder? Because by murdering someone he is denying that person their right to life. Stealing? The robber is denying the owner of the item their right to their property. These are crimes and illegal because they rob others of their rights or trample over them, not because the Bible or any other holy book says it is a sin. Ever notice how our legal system punishes crimes instead of sins? Why do you think that is?
Me getting legally married to my partner robs who of what? What legal right would you lose if I get married to him? None that I can think of.
Does it say anywhere in our constitution that you (Mo) have to legally abide by the rules of someone else’s religion (like Islam or Wiccans)? So if you would protest someone else trying to impose their religious beliefs on you, why are you so easy to do to others what you don’t like done to you?
I think B Natural said it best, you won’t have to accept anything you don’t see as valid or rightheous. That doesn’t mean our laws won’t though. If there was REALLY something “sacred/religious” about the license you get at the courthouse people of other faiths or atheist would not be able to marry and we all know that is not the case.
You want to defend marriage in general (religious and legal)? Support legislation to ban divorce (which I believe Jesus was also against except in cases of infidelity).
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 4 days ago
Harry here’s my primary point. I vote my values, you vote yours. God bless America that that’s our right. @Noneya you should probably read my posts again. I don’t do hate. Jesus no like:)
Now as to the premise of my values… I’ve been clear. I serve Jesus and my relationship with him and his word tells me that Homosexuality is wrong among other things. To agree with gay marriage is to sanction an anti-christ lifestyle and to compromise the biblical definition God has revealed to his people. I equate it with other sins like stealing and murder because I hold God’s perspective on things as my benchmark not men’s.
For example, Harry you used stealing as an example of what mankind considers an obvious wrong. I disagree, mankind is inherently self serving and will manipulate and have manipulated laws about theft to serve corporations and leveraged interesst. Case in point, corn farmers are losing theirs farms because they are sued for “theft” of proprietary corn stocks that were blown by the wind into their fields. This is a travesty but because the corporations can use strong arm legal tactics to paint a picture of theft its “theft”. (I hope you followed that.)
Another is murder. Mankind’s views on murder are skewed when convenient, we regularly abide murder when its wrong (abortion, death penalty, senior care, inner city homicide) so again I do not hold to mans morality here either but God’s righteousness.
But let me go even further and give you a direct answer.
Righteousness exalts a nation but sin tears it down.
If I disagree with sin regardless of whether or not it pervades the land and proliferates in society I stand for righteousness and I make a place for generations of believers like me in the future. I will not let he blood or sins legacy be on my hands or my children. So get it straight… I’m not against you persay I’m against sin. But when you try to use your sinful lifestyle to invade mine (think of a skunk spraying in a rose garden) I am compelled to invoke all that I am against it ie speaking up, praying, fasting, engaging, studying, rebuking, exhorting, encouraging, listening and… voting -
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Lee • 4 days ago Report Abuse
Mo, you don’t vote YOUR values you vote those from a book over 2000 years old. Well no it was written like 300 years after christ so I am sure it was accurate, like 7 generations oh ya sure it would be bang on. Then the cristians change the rules as they apply to themselves but hold steadfast to the rules everyone else should follow according to THER book. Thats fu(ked up.
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Noneya Dayam • Johnson City, Tennessee • 4 days ago Report Abuse
Mo: Hiding your hate behind your god is pretty lame. just own up to your hatred and stop pinning it on your imaginary friend in the sky.
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Harry • Austin, Texas • 4 days ago Report Abuse
I agree and I wouldn’t have it any other way, I fully support your right to vote your values.
The bible does condemns homosexuality in several ocassions (even though the word homosexual didn’t exist in it until the 1940s but that is another discussion). Jesus however never spoke of it.
Do you sanction smoking? What about drinking? What about the all time favorite, oral sex (i.e. sodomy)? Do you sanction any of those? I mean they are all legal and many would consider them sins. Would you support banning them legally?
Whether some people have found loopholes to get away with theft is irrelevant to the main point, theft is illegal and there is a reason for that, it violates the other person’s right to their property. Do some cases fall through the cracks due to legalities? Sure, the system is not perfect (how could it be if we are not?) and no one claimed it was. Bottom line is that it is illegal and if get caught doing it, you stepped on doodoo.
Regading murder, I have mixed feelings about the death penalty because it is a bit of a catch 22 situation. Do we kill him and do what we are punishing him for OR do I put him away and support him with my hard earned $ for the rest of his life? Who knows, maybe he/she could have a change of heart, maybe not, so it is complicated. Abortion I support if it is within the first trimester since there is no brain activity (i.e. brain dead) during that phase. After that I would highly prefer adoption unless the mother’s health is at risk.
How would me getting legally married to my partner invades yours life exactly? I missed that part. The part I don’t get most of the times is this, you would be 100% opposed to someone from a different religion forcing you (either through legislation or whatever else) to have to abide to what their religion considers right and wrong. And I don’t know you but I am pretty much 100% certain that would be the case. Yet, some of you are so super quick to do the exact same thing to others. I mean really, is that double talk, hypocrisy, or just ignorance? Can you explain it to me please?
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YesIamright • 4 days ago Report Abuse
Harry, how homosexual marriage would affect other people is a non-argument. If you married a goat or a 7-year old girl it wouldn’t affect me but that doesn’t mean I can condone it.
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Dr. Clayton Forrester • 4 days ago Report Abuse
Neither could a goat or a 7-year old girl. That’s why we have consent laws.
I think that ‘how homosexual marriage would affect other people’ is a great argument. If you can’t come up with a logical reason to be against it, then why be against it?
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Harry • Austin, Texas • 4 days ago Report Abuse
Yeslamright, obviously it is FAR from a non-argument because if it was there would be no one posting in this type of article instead of thousands of people.
With that said, you used the wrong analogy because it would affect the other party (in this case the girl or the goat) given that they are not able to provide legal consent. On the other hand, in my case, where both parties are consenting there is really no legal issue whatsoever.
Now tell me again, how would my marriage affect yours again?
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 4 days ago
@Harry, this is gonna sound awful but its really the truth. Its the rose garden analogy I spoke of earlier. Somethings are such a stink to God’s nostrils that it quickens his spirit within his believers to action. Gay marriage is one of them. Abortion is one of them. There are others. God is not pleased with this hedonistic view being championed in society today. Its one thing to say “I know that this is wrong or not what God wants for my life. I’m struggling to do better” but another thing entirely to say. “Well this is how I feel and I don’t think its hurting anybody so it right” here’s the bottom line, bro. My life revolves around Jesus and life has been amazing since it has. I’m trying get others to have what I have. But if you don’t value what he does then you’ll always be questioning. There’s always a reason NOT
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 4 days ago
typo there. I meant to say… if you don’t value what he does then you’ll always be questioning and have a reason NOT to do what he says.
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Lee • 4 days ago Report Abuse
MO we are not a theocracy. Your rules apply to your house, not the government.
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 4 days ago
@Lee I’m sorry that your encounters with his people or even those that just say they are his people have made you distrusting and bitter. I pray his will be done concerning such behavior because as i said before – he does not approve.
As to your implication about a the bible and its intepretation…
bro, were talking about the master of the universe… the creator of all things.
There’s no way a man could manipulate his written words enough to prevent those who seek him from finding him. Take it from someone who has found him and found him to be sweeter everyday to those whose heart is tender toward him
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 4 days ago
@Lee its all about the votes and the courts, man. We are what we vote.
We live out your convictions by in what we do and speak out of the abundance of our heart
Let’s just hope that one day were not a society where the majority voting class agrees with canniblism or animal/human marriage. I might sound ridiculous now but that’s how ridiculous the notion of a society sanctioning same sex marriage was some years ago. Vote your values, bro. I’ll vote mine.
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Lee • 4 days ago Report Abuse
Those actions are not legal so don’t attempt to throw them in with homosexuality.
I know few gay people. All of the people that are in our life are church going christians and none of them sound like the ones online. They all are for equal rights as we are. Thats the rules in my house. As for the courts I need to only look at our history to see where this one is going and your “house” ain’t gonna like it. -
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 4 days ago
They are not legal NOW but the more hedonist this society becomes the more they will rationalize such actions. Not so however for people like myself and believers after me who can make a distinction between moralism and the righteousness of God. I can be kind, loving and receptive to people who choose an anti-christ lifestyle without condoning it socially or legally. So can you.
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Noneya Dayam • Johnson City, Tennessee • 4 days ago Report Abuse
You are an American first and foremost. You enjoy the freedoms and rights that this great country has given you, and you wipe your feet with them. People are being treated unfairly under the law of the United States of America. You should be outraged, but no you are loyal to your ancient religion based on the writing of ignorant desert nomads that thought god wanted to live in a tent and be given dead animals. You are an insult to great Americans that came before you, ones that set aside their own personal self interest and did what was right for the Union. You are pathetic.
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Noneya Dayam • Johnson City, Tennessee • 4 days ago Report Abuse
I don’t give a rats behind who you THINK might have a problem with you in the next world. You are in this one now, act like a responsible compassionate adult and get over your own self importance.
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YesIamright • 4 days ago Report Abuse
@ Harry I already explained that your “marriage” to another homosexual would affect me the same as your marriage to a child or a goat.
In the final analysis society (aka We The People) decides what is moral and what is not. We have made it clear we will not redefine marriage to accommodate…More
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Dr. Clayton Forrester • 4 days ago Report Abuse
Well, that’s the difference between you and others. You don’t like something, therefore you decide that you should be treated better than that group. That way, you can feel superior.
Personally, I will always fight for equality in the United States, since this country is based on equal treatment for it’s citizens. But don’t let that swing you, your are better than the homosexuals. You are. Your mommy said so. 🙂
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Lee • 4 days ago Report Abuse
Y, Marriage was around 500-1000 years before christianity. The first recorded marriage was a daughter was signed over to a man and it was to ensure that no other man could have her. When christianity evolved the monks were asked to record these marriages as they were some of the few that could… More
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 3 days ago
@Lee There’s only one God, bro (I’m not intending to be condescending). The same God that said to be called “I AM” and “The Lord God” in earlier dispensations of time (the old testament) now instructs us to refer to him as Jesus (the fullness of the Godhead) in this current dispensation.
That said, God created Adam and Eve in the beginning. For those who hold the harmony of God’s word in spirit and in truth, this is the first marriage (Gen 2:21-25). -
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Dr. Clayton Forrester • 3 days ago Report Abuse
So the first marriage was between two mythological characters? Well, that’s really a game changer in the debate. :::rolls eyes::::
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 3 days ago
@Dr. Clayton Forrester… to know Jesus is to love Jesus, bro. He’s worthy of all the praise and honor and glory. I pray that you have such an encounter that reveals that to you.
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Dr. Clayton Forrester • 3 days ago Report Abuse
What does that have to do with what I said? I mean, why bring obvious mythology into the debate? It makes no sense whatsoever.
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Harry • Austin, Texas • 3 days ago Report Abuse
YesIamright, so basically me getting legally married to my partner doesn’t affect you then. Me legally marrying a goat or a child (which are both illegal because of consent reasons, something that cannot be said of homosexuality itself) would affect the child and the goat but have really no effect on you.
Now that we got that out of the way, why would you care if I marry a man or a woman anyway? After all, he is the one that have to live with me, he is doing so willingly, and I am robbing /violating/trampling none of his rights as a citizen.
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YesIamright • 3 days ago Report Abuse
I already explained that homosexual marriage is a travesty and turns the institution of marriage into a farce. Homosexuals only want to play at being married because they are desperate to feel accepted by normal people.
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YesIamright • 3 days ago Report Abuse
BTW if we redefine marriage for homosexuals why could we not redefine for bestialists too by removing the need for consent from the animal?
After all we don’t require consent for any other dealings with animals. Did your pet dog sign an agreement to be your pet?
Why should bestialists suffer such oppressive discrimination?
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 3 days ago
@Dr. Clayton Forrester… because when you have such an encounter with Jesus (God in the flesh) and begin to love him and make him the center of you life. You see how his word and ways are true. You realize how foolish and ludicrous it is refer to what he has said through the mouths and writings of his people and prophets as “mythology”.
But until you have such an encounter… all that I say is nonsense and hocus pocus to you-lol
Who can fault a blind man for what he doesn’t see? How can you attest to the sweetness of the lord if you’ve never tasted?
Maybe you’ve only seen hypocrisy in those that say they are believers. Maybe you’ve read the bible and only see contradiction and cruelty
Maybe you’ve seen people use the bible or God’s word to manipulate other for their own gain.All these things have merit and the lord is not pleased with any of them.
They do not, however make his word a lie or him false. I just pray with tears actually and passionately use my gift in prose to show you that there is a genuine, real, loving God who’s name in this dispensation is Jesus who gives meaningful, lucid answers to his people. Selah
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Dr. Clayton Forrester • 3 days ago Report Abuse
Mo, I hate to break this to you, but all intelligent Christians understand that Adam and Eve are mythological beings. The story is a metaphor. Most Christians have no issue with this.
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Harry • Austin, Texas • 2 days 8 hours ago Report Abuse
Actually, I am already accepted by the people that matter (family, friends and loved ones) so being “accepted” (whatever that means to you since I am not going to stop existing simply because you do not “accept” me LOL) by other people outside of that circle pretty much ZIP to me personally.
I would prefer to be married to my partner because of the legal benefits and protections a legal marriage provides to citizens. We are commited and love each other and it is not as if not being able to legally marry is going to take any of that away. So basically being legally married would simply add certain legal perks to our relationship and that’s the bottom line.
Regarding consent: I tell you what, if you find a way to invalidate the law of consent and make it so that it is no longer legally required in order to legally marry, THEN I will give that part of your argument a second thought. Until then it is akin to asking “Why can’t I kill my neighbor if he makes me mad?”.
To answer your questions: No, my dog didn’t not sign an agreement in order to become my pet (since I don’t have pets) probably because a legal contract is not required for that practice to take place. Bestialist suffer such oppresive discrimination because their practice is illegal (since the law states that a legal contract must exist between the parties, which is what a marriage license is after all).
You expressed what you think homosexual marriage is but you once more failed to answer my question (of course I am pretty sure why that is), how would me becoming legally married to my partner would affect your marriage with your wife (assuming you have one)?
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YesIamright • 2 days 7 hours ago Report Abuse
I have already explained – twice – that any effect on my marriage is a futile test for condoning homosexual marriage.
Bestial, consanguineous and polygamous marriage don’t affect mine but I don’t support those redefinitions of marriage either.
Interesting that you make excuses to deny these forms of marriage but reject the same reasons when applied to homosexual marriage
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Harry • Austin, Texas • 2 days 6 hours ago Report Abuse
In other words, you can’t name any effect on your marriage which is what I thought to be the case. It is not as futile as you might think because unless opponents can show exactly that in court, they have no legal grounds to keep gay couples from legal marriage (as the SCOTUS will soon prove).
Reading your 2nd paragraph, that is because all those are illegal except cousin marriage which is legal in some states. So in order for anyone to support them they would have to decriminalize them first and then worry about a legal case.
Which excuses are you referring to? Me saying that they are illegal? Well they are so would you rather me lie to you about it? LOL. Homosexuality is not illegal though. So your claim that the same “reasons” can be applied to homosexual marriage is completely false since the three practices mention above are illegal (with the exception I mentioned) whether homosexuality isn’t. IF homosexuality was illegal THEN I might have had to agree with you (at least from a stricly legal POV).
Is that really that hard to understand?
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YesIamright • 1 day 3 hours ago Report Abuse
There is no Constitutional reason why polygamy, bestial marriage or consanguineous marriage should be illegal.
Most laws could be repealed and not have any effect on you personally, but they exist because that’s how We The People choose to regulate our society…. More
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Harry • Austin, Texas • 1 day 2 hours ago Report Abuse
Whether you find a reason for them to be illegal or not, the fact is that they ARE in fact illegal, although in some states first cousins can marry as long as they are of age.
You are correct that most laws can be repealed and depending on which law we are referring to, it could or not have a direct effect on me or you and such is the case with legal marriage for gays. Feel free to regulate your life, I will regulate my own and as long as I don’t hurt anyone in the process, I have that right. The times of homosexuals living in fear for their lives and accepting oppression simply for the reason of “that’s how its always been” are over.
Actually that is not the only rule any longer. There are places where you can also marry an unmarried consenting adult of the same sex if that’s what you choose.
Again, you wanting to recognize or accept my sexual orientation is really irrelevant to me, those in my life that count already accept me the way I am and have no problem with it. I do recall a time when people did resist change because they felt certain things weren’t right and they had always been “that” way. Society got over those and they will also get over this one, of that I am sure.
After all, we don’t have to agree with everything each other do, we simply have to learn to live together and remember that we are all “brothers and sisters”, Americans.
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YesIamright • 23 hours ago Report Abuse
Your brothers and sisters have made it clear that they think you should be able to pursue your weird lifestyle choice if you wish but they draw the line at pretending it is equivalent to a heterosexual lifestyle.
Remind me how legalising bestial marriage would harm your life?
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Harry • Austin, Texas • 13 hours ago Report Abuse
It is in fact no different than heterosexual “lifestyle”, especially from a legal perspective. That much is shown when one looks at the 6 states where gays can legally marry. What has changed for heterosexual couples or their marriages? Nothing at all. They have not lost any benefits, they are still getting married, they are still having children, their lives have really not changed at all.
I never said people getting legally married to their pet would affect or harm my life (unless they were trying to marry MY pet). What I did say was that it is illegal because of legal consent laws. So for those interested in such marriaged I recommend attempting to repeal that law (legal consent) first. If they somehow present a reasonable case in court and succeed, THEN they will be able to focus on getting the court’s (or the people’s, whichever happens first) support for their cause.
With that said, homosexuality is not illegal.
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YesIamright • 10 hours ago Report Abuse
What would have changed if bestial marriage had been legalised in those 6 states?
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Lee • 9 hours ago Report Abuse
^^^Homosexuality IS legal, beastiality is not. If you want to marry your dog…..CALL A LAWYER….it is not MY fight.
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Noneya Dayam • Johnson City, Tennessee • 8 hours ago Report Abuse
I love how these idiots say “if two men can get married why not a man marry his dog”. They have ran out of any sort of logical argument a long time ago if they are down to man marrying animals. They know it is crap, they know we are talking about two consenting adults. They are just out of reasons to oppose same sex marriage. There is not one, NO NOT ONE, non religious argument why same sex marriage should not be legal. And since we don’t pass laws in America for religious reasons, they have NO REASON to oppose same sex marriage.
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Harry • Austin, Texas • 8 hours ago Report Abuse
YesIamright- To answer your question, it couldn’t have been legalized for the obvious reason that it does not pass the legal test (in this case it would be that the legalization of it doesn’t violate any other law currently being upheld). In other words, proponents would have had to invalidate the legal consent law before attempting to validate legal marriage to an animal.
So I think your question begs another question: What has changed in the states where legal marriage includes gay couples?
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Lee • 8 hours ago Report Abuse
^^^Of course, it is nothing more then to paint us in a negative light and try and distract from the issue at hand which is Equal Rights. This is why I don’t engage them when they start with their daughter, car or dog, they will go on and on and get sicker and nastier by the post and it is not MY fight.
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YesIamright • 7 hours ago Report Abuse
Lee what Constitutional grounds do you have for discriminating against polygamists, bestialists and close relatives who wish to have marriage redefined?
Why should we redefine it for homosexual couples but nobody else?… More
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Lee • 6 hours ago Report Abuse
I don’t need one as it is not my fight. Homosexuality is legal, polygamy is not, if YOU want to have several wives….CALL A LAWYER. That is just what we have done.
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Harry • Austin, Texas • 6 hours ago Report Abuse
YesIamright- To answer your question to Lee, they cannot be legalized for the obvious reason that it does not pass the legal test (in this case it would be that the legalization of it doesn’t violate any other law currently being upheld). In other words, proponents would have had to invalidate the legal consent law before attempting to validate legal marriage to an animal or multiple wives. First cousin marriage is actually legal in some states.
So I think your question begs another question: What has changed in the states where legal marriage includes gay couples?
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Mo • Mt Hamilton, California • 21 minutes ago
Harry, Lee, Noneya, you seem to be evading YesIamright’s question and obvious point on a weak premise. Same sex marriage is illegal just like polygamy and bestiality. Just like you wish it to be changed based on your assessment of it do
A Reasonable Answer 